Emily Harburg

Even with building a company, it's hard. But it's, you figure it out as you go. And even with coding, you know, there's a lot around Googling and like you don't know how to answer it. Let me figure it out and see what others have done. And so I think starting to realize, you know, that, that these things are hard, but they're not impossible. And if we kind of dismiss our own abilities set to the table, and actually try, we will never know if it's something that we could be good at.

Liz Gerber (host)

We are so excited to have Dr. Emily Harburg join us and share how she navigates and solves technical difficulties in her career as a female entrepreneur, and tech designer. She's the co founder and CEO of her startup PairUp and was previously at Disney Imagineering, Meta, and Education First. Hi, Emily. And welcome. We're so glad to have you.

Emily Harburg

Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

Liz Gerber (host)

We are going to jump right in. And we want to know, what was that moment when you said, oh, design. This is what's for me. I'm a designer. Was there a moment? Or did it happen over time?

Emily Harburg

It definitely happens over time. But I do feel like my first job out of undergrad was working at Disney Imagineering and the theme parks as you mentioned, and there was a moment where I was actually entering the parks coming in. And I just saw the power of good design, I have all these kind of thoughtful curated experiences at every moment. And I felt part of it as a staff member there of seeing the ways that we could interact and make people feel from this first moment they entered the parks. And that was when I kind of fell in love with design.

Liz Gerber (host)

And I love that. Was there a particular I have to ask. Was there a particular experience you loved at Disney that really just encapsulated that experience? Any favorites?

Emily Harburg

Yeah, so many, I mean, I think one was just in you feel this, even if you go to the parks yourself, but and kind of every staff member is kind of on stage and everyone there is a guest and so that mindset kind of affected everyone and anyone and I remember even coming in, and the security guards would say to me, even as a staff member, like "Hello, Princess," and you know, making me feel like, "Oh, thank you," you know, my 30 is like grateful for the welcome that way. But but just that mindset, I think was one of one of the thoughts of even designing the human engagement and behavior with each other. But in every detail, the music that would change as you walk to one area to park to the next, you know that details are on the buffet. There's lots more to say there. But I think that was I could start to see the power of design in little and big ways.

Liz Gerber (host)

I love it. So you were part of the show, even as a staff member, you were you were on stage? Well, you mentioned the buffet and I have to ask you about this story. Tell us, one of your jobs was in design research. And my understanding is you did an interesting project on the buffet experience. Are you willing to share a little more detail with us?

Emily Harburg

Sure. Yeah. So this was just we were thinking a lot around, how do you shape kind of decisions? And also think about how do you improve experiences. And oftentimes, buffet lines can be frustrating, because it's a long line, and you're waiting and you're tired, and you're hungry. And you're also not sure what's coming. So you kind of get into a line and you just start to put stuff on your plate, you want to get your money's worth. So we looked at that kind of painful experience of going through a buffet line with all of the typical human frustrations in the midst of a long day. And basically looked at what could we change that might help people have a better sense of what's coming that might help improve the queuing experience. And that also might help them kind of choose healthier options, potentially, or think about at least what kind of options could be out there that might make them feel better for the rest of the day. And so it was again, in designing and thinking about let's try this. Does that change behavior? What if you give someone a menu at the start of a line? How does that shape how they go through it? What if you kind of actually don't make it one long line, but have different entry points? How does that help shape behavior? So it was a really cool experiment in way of kind of taking a design thinking approach to a waiting experience, and making it more delightful, kind of in the process?

Liz Gerber (host)

Wow. So that was about researching buffet lines. I can imagine there was maybe some technology involved. But my understanding about your career is you've since progressed even more into technology and the role of technology. And I'm wondering if you're able to share how that transition happened into the role of from researching buffet lines into researching technology and maybe share a specific example if you will.

Emily Harburg

Yes, I think I found that you know, there's a lot you can do in the world and kind of tweaks you can adjust and human behavior and human experiences. But I think when you know obviously technology is shaping us drastically and as ever Where and it's also deeply, it can be kind of quite scalable or can reach lots of different people. So I got really interested in where's this intersection of computer science and psychology. And so that's where I joined this Ph. D program at Northwestern through the Delta lab where I got to work with you and where I was thinking about, really, how do we help kind of use the power of technology, but also take into account the need for humanity and the need for human connection. But also, there are moments when humans are forgetful or where we, you know, don't understand the network or who we could connect to. And so where can technology actually come in, and help kind of support human connection and human behavior. So that was, that interest started. And then and it has led kind of in powerful ways for me and my own journey of where can we kinda pull those two together to create these powerful, delightful experiences.

Liz Gerber (host)

So your background is really interesting. Emily, you as I understand it, were studied social psychology and anthropology. And then you later did a degree in computer science. So tell me about what like what worked about blending those two studies and what felt at odds?

Emily Harburg

Yeah, I think when I was in college, I never really saw myself in kind of a technical light, I think I often shied away from CS classes, I remember, there were a few requirements. And I would kind of try and take a course that wasn't requiring me to build something technical or kind of be in that light, and then hit a point where, when I was at Disney, I just felt like I gotta learn the technical side of things in order to really be able to scale and make and make the kind of impact that I want to have in in this space. And so that was kind of where I started to realize the power of those two worlds coming together and found that there are actually folks who cared about that as well, and were degrees around it. And so that really inspired me to go back and learn and to do the work to actually build up the skills to, to learn the technical side of things, as well as pulling my behavioral research side and understanding to that equation. So it was a really cool marrying of worlds that I think, and we're seeing more and more the need for those two worlds coming together as well.

Liz Gerber (host)

So I've got to ask, that must have been intimidating, wasn't not intimidating, later to get into technology, when I imagine you're with all these other people who've been studying it, like they've been building computers since they were nine years old. And you're just coming into it was that was that nerve racking? Or how did that feel?

Emily Harburg

Yeah, it was. And I think it actually in some ways, was what inspired me to want to get help more women learn how to code and even now thinking and more helping more women build technical companies. And, you know, I think in some ways, it was helpful that I had to go through such an impostor syndrome in a slightly older age than when I was younger, and learning because I was like so attuned to the, you know, the feelings that you have, when you're a novice, when you're feel that you don't necessarily belong in a space or in a class that everyone around you seems like they get it right away, and you don't. And so I think that was a, it was a humbling experience to learn, and then to also be like, it's hard, but it's not that hard. You know, it's like, even with building a company, it's hard. But it's, you figure it out as you go. And even with coding, you know, there's a lot around Googling, and like, you don't know how to answer it. Let me figure it out and see what others have done. And so I think starting to realize, you know, that, that these things are hard, but they're not impossible. And if we kind of dismiss our own ability to step to the table, and actually try, we will never know if it's something that we could be good at.

Liz Gerber (host)

I love that. Hard, but not impossible. Beautiful, just beautiful. So tell us more about your startup. What is PairUp all about?

Emily Harburg

Yes. So we are really focused on human connection at work. And we're really focused on how can you help staff get the support they need when they need it? And how can you also really kind of, especially in a remote or hybrid setting, when there's the lack of community, the lack of connection, also this kind of loss of culture within organizations, how can you use technology to help pull people get together and help connect them and help them get, you know, support and connection as they grow. So that was kind of the initial starting point. And we've done it in a variety of ways. But we've done a lot of focus around, matching people together around helping them get kind of ongoing coaching and support and kind of also getting support when sometimes they need a friend. Sometimes they need a mentor. Sometimes they need a sponsor, it kind of depends at moments of what kind of support you may need.

Liz Gerber (host)

You started a fabulous nonprofit called Brave. And I would love to hear more about Brave because I think it maybe is in line with this hard but not impossible. Tell us what Brave was about and where it stands today.

Emily Harburg

So yeah, the impetus for Brave was kind of again, rooted in some of my own experiences, but many others of just kind of stepping into the technical space and feeling. You know, a little bit of alone or, or that, you know, kind of wrestling with some of the stereotypes that exist within certain spaces. And so the idea was, could we help young women when they're starting to form sense of self, and identities change their thoughts around their role in computer science and their role at the table. And so started with kind of in person boot camps and running for high school for college for some middle school, women. When COVID hit, obviously, everything was put on hold. And you know, because so much of it was relying on these in person learning experiences and creating these powerful spaces for connection and community. And so we had to put everything online. And then the beautiful kind of crossover that it led to was actually opening up coding programs for women in prison. And so women who are pre released from from jail to actually have a chance to learn and grow and build up their skills and change their lives, self, but also kind of trajectory of where they could go post release. And so that has been incredibly moving. It's actually now not just with women, it's also with men, and we've been running them in different facilities across the US. And it's, it's been an awesome journey; kind of a side passion that's turned to a lot more.

Liz Gerber (host)

Wow. So there seems like there's so many lessons from that. But if you were to distill one or two, for our audience from that experience, what might they be?

Emily Harburg

I mean, it's been so powerful to watch people change story of self. And I think that there just been such a common heartbeat across men and women, you know, kind of all genders, just a kind of going into a something that you didn't think that you could do. And then realizing this is something that I both can do, and also have a unique voice to give to this solution or to this to this, what I'm trying to build. And so that, to me has been so cool to see like what happens when we have folks who are kind of in you know, for years in, in prisons, but actually like have so much to give and have so much that they want to do in the world, what happens when you give young women voices of sites that they want to build, because they're affected by cyber bullying, so they want to create a better, better online community to help young people who are on these platforms actually feel connected and supported. So to me, it's been these lightbulb moments when people realize, like, I have a voice in this and I have something that to give and something that I want to build. And that has been just the coolest thing to watch. And the other beautiful thing now and has been where we're using tear up to now mentor folks coming out of prison when they get out to be matched and paired with someone. And it's also just been really powerful to see, you know how impactful it is for the volunteers or for the mentors coming in and saying, you you know, obviously, this is the classic cert with with volunteering, but you know, you change my life by me helping you and then in turn, it's also helping change the mentees life. So that's been a very powerful experience to watch and be part of.

Liz Gerber (host)

I really admire the way you think about all the different people in a system. Emily, you never just think it's not a user and a technology, you really think about who's all around? And how can each person give what they can to make a better world, really. It's really inspiring. Thank you for sharing all those things. So you've done everything, Emily? And what do you still want to do? What is what is left? What's on your, on your mind?

Emily Harburg

So much to do. I mean, right now I'm like knee deep in startup learning, which has been fun and painful and exhilarating and scary. It's kind of like every day, you know, the highs and lows of like, this is gonna change the world or we may not survive, you know, kind of those combination of feelings like simultaneously hold held together. So I am deep in the kind of startup Product Market Fit learning about, you know, how you go to market and scale and how do we support customers in the best ways. And so I'm deep in learning and growing in that and fundraising and kind of working closely with investors and advisors. So it's been it's been a it's been an amazing journey, but it's almost like all consuming. Everything you think about. So that has been my current learning, while also trying to take moments to hike and play and be with family and community while staying sane building this business.

Liz Gerber (host)

Relatedly, your Twitter bio says you're on a mission to build Tech with with empathy. Explain more. What does that mean to you?

Emily Harburg

I mean, I just feel like we're all feeling some of the ramifications and repercussions of technology kind of when it's, you know, thought about humans, but it's almost a bit of an afterthought. It's more thought of like what's going to be addictive, what's going to be you know, sticky, like maybe foreseen and I'm thinking of them as I build even my own business and like you wrestle with these obstacles of who are we prioritizing? You know, what are we prioritizing. And so I think for me this idea of empathetic technology or building technology with deeply the user in mind, which I know, I'll many, I'm not alone that many people are thinking about user centered design alongside of the people in our program. But I think that, to me, that's kind of my mission, as of late is really how do we bring the human into the experience? How do we build with empathy and thinking about how it might make them feel and what's going to be productive versus hurtful or isolating? So that's, that's been part of my late call.

Liz Gerber (host)

That's really beautiful. Thank you, do you get Do you experience any resistance to that?

Emily Harburg

I do. I mean, I think that there's a there's a push for, you know, what's gonna sell and get ads, what's gonna, you know, I think we're days at Facebook, and now on the startup and kind of in a variety of settings, there's going to be always like, what's going to hook people on there and kind of increase engagement and, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes engagement means that they're, you know, it's more helpful for them. So that can actually be a wonderful thing. But I think that that you have to kind of constantly be juggling, like, what is the goal here, that we're really trying to serve and build? And hopefully, if it's the right kind of tool, it's, you know, not necessarily addicting but helpful. And additive. And so, so I think it's, it's a, it's a constant kind of push and pull of what, who we're trying to serve?

Liz Gerber (host)

I mean, yeah, certainly, certainly, that sounds like a, an interesting tension to navigate. If you could wave a wand and show us the future of technology and humanity, how would you describe it? What would it look like?

Emily Harburg

Yeah, I think it would be, you know, technology that's being designed by diverse teams of people who are coming together from different perspectives and diversity and a variety of census of age, and background and race and perspective, and, you know, outlook on the world, and even like, with varying levels of abilities, and disabilities, etc, but kind of this collaborative building of technology with different mindsets and viewpoints coming to the table and having a voice like a strong voice, not just the strongest thing, you know, who was more persuasive, but actually who, kind of representing these different voices coming together. And so I think if we're, we're building with, like, teenagers, for instance, are building with folks who are coming out of the criminal justice system. You know, I think having, for instance, just those two voices at the table would change the way technology is built, and designed, and how people are using it. And so, yeah, I'm excited for that, because I think it's starting to happen, like, I think I'm starting to see more and more voices come to the table. And realize that they have an important role to play and can be compensated well for it. And so yeah, I think I think that's going to be a better, kind of more supportive and more kind of empathetic, tech filled world as we grow.

Liz Gerber (host)

Oh, I love it. Thank you for articulating that. It's not just who the technology is for, but how we're actually going to design the technology in of itself. And it sounds like you're advocating for a much more inclusive process, that has historically been been the case, in technology development for sure. Any advice you have to offer to people entering tech entrepreneurship?

Emily Harburg

I mean, it's so much better with others, like it's so much, it can be such an isolating journey. But it's so wonderful to have teammates, you know, even this weekend, we've got an off site where my whole team is coming together. And just to feel like when you find people who are aligned in their passions, and who are like, you know, dreaming about the same kind of dreams like and then actually working on building that together, it just makes it so much more fun. So, I think had I tried to kind of stay in my own bubble and just build a build and, you know, grow out would be a much more lonely journey. So I think that has been a big learning find people who are passionate about similar things and, and come alongside

Liz Gerber (host)

them. Great. That's excellent. Thank you. So for people who want to learn more about where your career is going, what you're doing, how can they how can they follow you, Emily, what can they do?

Emily Harburg

Yeah, so if they if you want to learn more about PairUp, which has been kind of we're really thinking about most deeply right now. You can go to pairupapp.com. But if you also want to reach out to me or talk more, learn more about any part of the journey, I'm on LinkedIn at Emily Harburg. So you can go there and we also have PairUp LinkedIn account prepared as well. But happy to chat and think about it.

Liz Gerber (host)

Emily, you are such an inspiration and role model and we're so grateful that you're sharing your story with so many people and we wish you luck on the next steps of your journey.